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My Crazy SFNE Exansion Idea...

Discussion in 'If I Ran The Park...' started by jzoole, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. jzoole

    jzoole

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    For some time now, I've been marinating on this pretty out-there (and yes, I'm aware, very unlikely) idea for how SFNE could expand and solve some of the issues I see with the park.

    I'll start by saying that one of the major problems I feel plagues SFNE is the awkward linear layout that the park has developed. The park is essentially a long straight line with a couple of narrow loops that don't do much to alleviate the cramped feeling one gets when traversing back and forth from North to South. Another issue I feel the park is developing is a lack of water attractions that help guests cool down in the summer heat, as well as serve as big ticket attractions that appeal to pretty much all guest demographics.

    So here's my wild idea:

    Step 1. Completely rebuild the Picnic Grove outside of the park. I know this sounds pretty drastic but hear me out. There are several spots where the picnic area could be relocated to. Adjecent to the parking lot, in a reclaimed portion of the parking lot, in reclaimed portion of the employee lot.... there are many areas outside the park which have been mentioned in other forums over the years that could be utilized for a new picnic location. If this sounds insanely unrealistic to you, keep in mind that Six Flags has actually done this exact thing before. Back in 2008, Fiesta Texas completely relocated and re-built their picnic area to free up the space for Goliath, so there is already a precedent for the concept. This would free up a large tract of land accessible from the rest of the park on the other side of the protected wetlands areas which could be used for....

    Step 2. An entirely new themed area. This would involve the dissolution of Crackaxle Canyon. Crackaxle Canyon (in my opinion of course) has always been a little half-baked. It's a very small corner of the park, and butts right up against the road as well as a maintenance area. Modeled after the original Crackaxle Canyon in Six Flags Fiesta Texas, it's a very pale shadow of its inspiration, which is large, much more immersive, and built entirely inside of a quarry, making the "Canyon" name actually fit. My idea would see this area essentially folded back into the slightly generic New England themed North End. This wouldn't take much in the way of modifications.
    Meanwhile, a new wider and better themed bridge would welcome guests across the brook into the area formerly occupied by the picnic grove. This area would be themed to an old west riverside mining camp. The area could reuse the "Crackaxle" moniker and drop the "Canyon", becoming something like "Crackaxle Junction" or "Crackaxle Springs", or it could recieve a new name altogether (perhaps with "Riverside" somewhere in there as a nod to the park's roots.)
    I envision two new major rides headlining this area. The first would be a Rocky Mountain Construction wooden roller coaster, somewhere in the $8-10 million range, along the lines of the crazy-intense Outlaw Run at Silver Dollar City. Just for fun, I'll throw the name "Vigilante" out there.
    The other major attraction I see for this area (which goes back to my complaint of diminishing water ride options) is a simple log flume. Nothing super elaborate, but with decent theming, some logging mill pieces, a few splashing geysers, a few simple tunnels, etc. I'd call it something like "Big Timber Falls". Something like this could probably be accomplished for around $4 million or less.
    Lastly, the area's ride offerings could be rounded out by relocating two flats from elsewhere in the park - Tomahawk and Buzzsaw. Neither of these would require new names or themes.
    A small group of new structures could house a new restroom, a food vendor, and perhaps a western-themed gift shop. If the park really wanted to cut costs, they could probably even carefully disassemble the facades of some of Crackaxle Canyon's buildings and re-use them on new structures in the new area.
    Another bridge would cross over the brook again at the far end of the park near Pandemonium and Blizzard River, thus creating a loop which would significantly improve traffic flow.
    While all of this would represent a very significant investment for the park, if it was down smartly, it could probably be pulled off for $15-20 million - not much more than the price tag spent in recent years on single roller coaster projects like X-Flight at Great America.
    Here's an aerial view of where the new area would be placed (in case you're having any trouble visualizing what I'm talking about for whatever reason):
    New Area.png

    Okay, so there you have it. My admittedly crazy and unlikely, yet not-completely-beyond-all-realms-of-feasability idea. Food for thought.
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  2. Blues

    Blues

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    I'm like the creativity in terms of getting rid of the linear layout, but the Grove can't really be moved. There is not space in the employee lot, and it would defeat the purpose to put it on the other side of the road. I could definitely see them downsizing the amount of pavilions that they have.

    Normally, there's never more than the front 2 being used. I think keeping those, the pool, and the 3rd one right next to the pool would be plenty. Keep in mind though, if they turn the rest of that land into regular park space, they lose the concert area which is a huge money maker.

    If they were to keep a small chunk I would like them to keep that secluded feel from the rest of the park. That could be easily accomplished by putting in some trees across the "new border" where that third pavilion ends (hope that makes sense sorta).

    I like the concept of building the bridges over the wetland. If possibly they could build the one going to the "new section of the park" starting where the old trampoline pad is.
  3. jzoole

    jzoole

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    I disagree that the picnic grove couldn't be moved. As has been discussed many times before on these forums, there are a lot of different ideas that could free up space in places outside the park. One plan many people have mentioned is to create employe parking in the plot of land just South of the park in Connecticut and then run a shittle bus for their employees. Then the picnic Grove could be built on part of the employee lot, and it wouldn't even have to be separate from the park. I agree that the concert venue needs to stay where it is, but it could remain in the new area. By the way, the trampoline pad is where I was thinking the bridge could start too. Thanks for your feedback. :)
  4. mrceagle

    mrceagle

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    I like many of your ideas. I woudl welcome a Flume though your price tag is actually a bit high. A Hopkins woudl run in the 1.7 range. Local Sky Trans(old Hopkins in NH) could get you a solid flume for a million.

    Coaster is way under priced. Yes outlaw Run was 10 million but it was only 110ft and build into the terrain. Picnic grove is flat so you woudl have to build all the support adding millions to the project.

    How do you plan of finding space for the concert area on top of the new rides. Your looking at a couple acres for the flume and 3-6 acres alone for the coaster. 2 rides, walkway and buildings another 3 acres at least. but given were you wan your second stairway your looking more like 4-5 acres. that's going to consume the cleared area and then some. further expansion going int land that I'm pretty sure is not zoned for the par. acts as buffer zone for noise to local housing. Most importantly it provides the park with needed green space which is required within the property.

    I agree that canyon never fit with a western area built on a hill side. but we're owned by a company that isn't the most creative and reuse themed properties within the company. but that doesn't make it a bad area. While I'm not a fan of Goliath it dose draw more attention into the area. and if they ever relocated the maintenance building it could not only be expanded but another path out could be created. Why retheme this area and create a new western area. Why not simply create a new theme?
  5. jzoole

    jzoole

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    I've been wondering if I was going to hear your input mrceagle, lol. You bring up some good points. I agree, I do think I over-bid for the flume. But I guess that would leave more money in the budget for a RMC, wouldn't it? ;) I feel pretty confident that SFNE could get an awesome RMC wooden coaster in the vain of Outlaw Run or Goliath for somewhere under $15 million.

    Also, I see where it sounds tricky to keep the concert space and still fit everything in, while still avoiding the wetlands areas and the buffer zone. But as we've seen over and over, if a park really wants to build something, they'll find a creative solution. One idea I had was to put the flume on the far northern part of the space, north of the concert area, and run the coaster alongside the river, just east of the concert space. The rest of the structures and the two relocated flats would just south of the cocnert area. That way everything basically surrounds the concert space and leaves the wetlands untouched, as well as staying far away from the buffer zone at the northern edge of the property. I made a map of the basic idea:

    SFNE Expansion.png

    There would be some land clearing involved, but it would ideally be minimal, as it would fit the theme way better for the new rides to be nestled in the woods and keep as many trees as possible. Which leads me to the next thing you brought up. I see why it sounds stupid to you to "untheme" the current Crackaxle Canyon, just to reuse the Western theme in the new area lol. But what can I say? This is the "If I Ran the Park" forum after all! I came up with that idea for several reasons. (A) I think the current Crackaxle Canyon just doesn't live up to potential due to its tiny size and location. (B) It would be really easy to morph the current Crackaxle area back into New England North End theming anyway. (C) The new area would need to be themed, and frankly, Western style theming is probably the easiest and cheapeast type of theming for a park to do well. (D) Western theming works PERFECTLY with wooden roller coasters, as well as with log flumes! Also, the two flats that my plan calls for relocating to the new area are already Western themed, and many people have complained for a long time about Buzzsaw needing to be relocated to the proper themed area anyway. and finally (E) western theming would be awesome in the secluded and wooded area on the other side of the wetlands.

    So there are my thoughts. Thanks for engaging in a discussion about all these crazy unlikely hypotheticals. :)
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2014
  6. mrceagle

    mrceagle

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    Except much of it is not wooded and you are removing even more trees. on top of that you want to wrap a western themed area around a Metal stage and show area.

    yes it's an If I ran the park. I am not calling it stupid and I hope I didn't post anything that gave you that impression. part of the fun of these section is feedback. true it's often against the post but normally through that you can weed out problems and ideas can blossom into truly amazing scenarios.

    Placement of the coaster is a no no, For starters you wont be able to build to the ground. footers will not only have to be build protruding above the ground but given the water table very deep to support the coaster. This Will add millions to the project. For example Footers for Time Machine were set in some cases75ft deep to anchor to solid ground. You will have a similar situation building along the river. Your also in a flood zone and part of your layout goes over wet lands.

    I agree that Crackaxle is small. Goliath being queue off it helps expand it's size. but it dosn't help that they removed Rodeo and heft the spot empty. Houdini also has a lot of overflow queue space they only use during fright fest.

    Which also has not been discussed. all your area uses the queue area for the forest walk and your flume uses a fair chunk of the haunt location.

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